Updates?

**Kong** · 02-19-2011, 10:26 PM

I had a few big technical hurdles to get over before being able to update AOX, MAME or MESS again.

I have pretty much made it over those hurdles and so can start updating them now.

If you have any suggestions, now is the time to post them.

In MAME and MESS (arcade and score mode emulators) I am going to make it meet the standards of Twin Galaxies. That way we can submit our scores to them. I was hoping to be able to talk to someone there and do something more official and automatic but they wont answer their emails so I am just going to make a way were we can submit as if we were a normal TG user.

That will mean disabling pause, fast forward and frame skip in score mode. Disabling frame skip is going to make it harder for some people to reach the 95% FPS but it might also fix the movie desync problem.

I'm going to try to have save states and configs be stored on the server instead of in your temp directory.

Make the popup that says only one credit in score mode disappear faster.

This would also mean we would go from MAME 0.135 to 0.141 and get all of their updates. You can see them here http://mamedev.org/releases/whatsnew_0141.txt and MESS's in the attached file.

In AOX
Firefox often redownloads files that are already donwloaded - fix that.
Try to prevent files from getting corrupted.
Make it run from y8.com
Run multi-file games - like large amiga games and dos games.
Better loading progress bar.
Add button to open the AOX temp folder.

Any other suggestions?

**Tails** · 02-19-2011, 11:57 PM

I've gotta say I'm sad to see END leaving score mode.

**joz** · 02-19-2011, 11:59 PM

Fuck...looks like I won't be able to put up too many scores with Pause disabled. At least not at work. Other than that, everything seems good. How soon will this be taking place?

**Tails** · 02-20-2011, 12:41 AM

Wow, I overlooked pause >_>

**Seahawk** · 02-20-2011, 12:43 AM

If you update MAME and MESS you will possibly break every movie on the site, either because they will refuse to playback the input file, or they will desync because the driver files were changed.

**joz** · 02-20-2011, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcePuppy

Off topic, but any chance ALL scores will one day be reset to 0 and everyone can start fresh?

maybe

**Seahawk** · 02-20-2011, 01:36 AM

Hey, I've never had a problem with setting everything to zero and starting over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I'd be up for that. Eventually we'll probably get to the point where we discuss deleting scores without movies/verification anyways.

Damn, I'm like a prophet, or something XD.

**Kong** · 02-20-2011, 11:16 PM

I'm pretty sure Twin Galaxies wont accept scores with pause and fastforward, hence the change. If someone researches TG's rules and finds out that is wrong then we can keep them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk

If you update MAME and MESS you will possibly break every movie on the site, either because they will refuse to playback the input file, or they will desync because the driver files were changed.

Old movies will be opened with the old emulator, new movies with the new.

---------- Post added 02-21-2011 at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-20-2011 at 01:28 PM ----------

OK. Some problems.

TG for sure does not allow pauses or frame skipping.

And they only accept scores from MAME 0.1.06. That is about 5 years out of date. We are not going to go that far back just for them.

And they do not accept scores from any console emulators.

They are outdated and refusing to keep up with the times.

I sent them another email asking if they want to update to our system, but we are not going to downgrade to theirs.

So that means pause and frameskip are back on the table.

I think no pause sounds more "official" but disabling it might piss off too many people.

Frameskip and fast forward might cause the desync problems. That needs to be tested more to know for sure.

Without the TG support as an option it might not be worth upgrading at this time. Anyone see any features listed above, particularly in the whats new files?

**Dudebro** · 02-20-2011, 11:29 PM

Honestly I say fuck twin galaxies if they're refusing to keep up with the times. I think pause is fine and lots of people like it or need it. Is there a way to make the pause screen opaque to help with it being more official? If you can't pause and see anything then it's hardly a help for cheaters.

Quote:

I'm going to try to have save states and configs be stored on the server instead of in your temp directory.

This would be cool.

**Seahawk** · 02-20-2011, 11:49 PM

Six official releases of MAME = A LOT of updates, this includes the in between "u" versions, of which there are usually four.

Some things that usually change between versions:

-Input file recording is more efficient and files are smaller
-Arcade ROM sets are changed/updated, so you'll have to find the changed sets and reupload them with the new sets

Things I know have changed since v135:

-MAME started converting to C++ in v136u1, you'll need a new toolchain to compile. Links to v136whatsnew.txt and new tools.
-Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong Jr. had their sound chips updated, sound way better
-Graphics on Batsugun were worked on a lot
-Many games had their custom chips dumped. See here for more info.

Eh, way too many things to even remember or list:
mame136new.txt
mame137new.txt
mame138new.txt
mame139new.txt
mame140new.txt
mame141new.txt

As for MESS, usually drivers are updated, but they may not be the ones we have on site. Unfortunately MESS has a lot less documentation than MAME.

The only thing I know for sure is that the sound in Secret of Mana is no longer broken in the newest MESS. Oh, and N64 emulation is pretty much perfect now, but no one will be able to run N64 in MESS anyways.

**Dojah** · 02-21-2011, 12:19 AM

I did not know fast forward effects the video playback.

**Kong** · 02-21-2011, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudebro

Is there a way to make the pause screen opaque to help with it being more official?

There already is a way to do that. Setting on mod page plus if you pause more than 10 times then it is opaque. I see why TG says no pauses, makes sense, but it will make more people upset than happy, so should probably stay.

Quote:

... ....I'm going to try to have save states and configs be stored on the server instead of in your temp directory. ... ..

Assuming that works with no problem then it alone is enough to go through with the update.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dojah

I did not know fast forward effects the video playback.

I'm not sure yet, more testing is needed. It defiantly does not every time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk

-Input file recording is more efficient and files are smaller

If that is true in this case then it would be great to take advantage of.

Quote:

Batsugun

Little known awesome game. Everyone should check it out.

Quote:

Oh, and N64 emulation is pretty much perfect now, but no one will be able to run N64 in MESS anyways.

Why is that? It is being added this year and I was hoping MESS would pull through on it.

**Seahawk** · 02-21-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kong

Why is that? It is being added this year and I was hoping MESS would pull through on it.

The specs on the N64 are really high. CPU runs at 94Mhz, and the graphics are mostly 3D which take a lot of power to run.

I remember there was an coin op game on RU that ran on N64 hardware, Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. I only got 50-60% fps on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kong

If that is true in this case then it would be great to take advantage of.

For reference:
On MAME v128 (on my computer) a full run of 1941: Counterattack is 3,395KB
On MAME v135 (on Retrouprising) a full run of 1941: Counterattack is 799KB
On MAME v141 (on my computer) a full run of 1941: Counterattack is 893KB

The difficulty was higher on my computer so I was probably pushing more buttons. The input compression comes from when the input is the same on several frames in a row. So if the player uses the controls more the input file will be bigger.

In any case you might have the most recent input engine already. But you should do more testing.

**Kugyince** · 02-21-2011, 07:07 AM

Save states stored server side.

**joz** · 02-21-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kongo

I'm going to try to have save states and configs be stored on the server instead of in your temp directory. ... ..

Does that mean that we would be able to play our saved games on any computer instead of having to copy and transfer our files? If so then I am totally cool with this.

**Tails** · 02-21-2011, 08:46 AM

It'd be nice so I don't have to worry about CCleaning it.

**Kong** · 02-21-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jozman3000

Does that mean that we would be able to play our saved games on any computer instead of having to copy and transfer our files?

Yes, just like in Java. However this feature would be added to MAME and MESS only, not to every emulator. Meaning not console Full Mode.

I was thinking of making all games load in MAME/MESS in both Full and Score.

And then having an option some where for advanced options. The advanced options would have several choices for changing full mode and changing emulators.

**Tails** · 02-21-2011, 10:44 AM

I could just see the bugs that would bring though.

**Kong** · 02-21-2011, 10:59 AM

Like what?

**Tails** · 02-21-2011, 11:04 AM

Full mode bleeding into score like Dips and settings for one. Confusion as to which mode you chose (made put at the beginning this is score mode or something). Also didn't you say there was issues with GBC saving at one point?

**Kong** · 02-24-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tails

Full mode bleeding into score like Dips and settings for one.

There is one game that does that and I will fix it in next update.

Quote:

Confusion as to which mode you chose (made put at the beginning this is score mode or something).

A message at beginning can say which mode you are in. I was thinking of having something like the "toggle mouse support button" but for "toggle score mode".

So you do not select a mode at all. The game loads in MAME/MESS. All features are enabled - saves, dips etc. You press F1 or something like that and the game restarts, all features are disabled and you are in score mode. Press F1 again and you are back in Full Mode.

No play mode selection, just a Toggle Key in game. And maybe have a little black box in corner say "Score Recording Enabled" same as how the FPS are displayed when you press F11 now.

Quote:

Also didn't you say there was issues with GBC saving at one point?

That was in Java and can probably be fixed.

---------- Post added 02-24-2011 at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was 02-21-2011 at 12:42 PM ----------

I just did some testing, at the very least this update will improve SNES quite a bit so I will go forward with it.

**joz** · 02-24-2011, 08:57 PM

**Kong** · 02-24-2011, 09:57 PM

I tested Secret of Mana and Mystics Quest. Both are fixed. I tested Beyond Oasis. It was still broken.

**Tails** · 02-25-2011, 07:25 AM

Mario RPG?

**joz** · 02-25-2011, 08:22 AM

Hmmm... I'm crossing my fingers to see if Tactics Ogre: Cling Together might be fixed with this update.