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Kong
01-06-2015, 04:27 PM
Tell me what you think of this idea. If this was the future of RU scores how would you participate, how do you think others would?

The goal is to reward/pay players for being champs and to bring money into RU so the site can afford to grow.

The idea:
1. Only "pro" users can win a "jack pot" (described below).
2. To be a pro user you have to match or beat the average monthly donation - similar to humble bundle. When you sign up you are told how much the average player donates and are asked to match that amount. You can choose to pay $0 and still have nearly all features and play and compete for free but if you match or beat the average price then you become a "pro" player.
3. All membership fees are evenly deposited into a jack pot for each game. We will start by hand selecting 30 games with the best/most competitive score mechanic (not farmable games or games with bad INP recording). We will add 30 more games to this pool every month. So that they grow at a slow and steady pace.
4. So if we have 100 games and 10 users pay $5/month each. Then each of those 100 games would have a jack pot that grows by $0.50 a month ((10users*$5)/100games). Games that are never beat would eventually have very large jack pots.
5. When a paid user beats a high score he collects the game's jack pot, as cash through pay pal.
6. Users can optionally deposit additional money directly into a specific jack pot of their choice.

They would do that for one of two reasons. A) Just to reward the new champ or encourage action/play in a game they enjoy. B) Because they are the current champ and they want bragging rights. Your high score in a game with a $100 jack pot is more impressive than a score with just a a $1 bounty. Knowing someone can make a $100 to beat you and they still don't let's you know you are the true champ.

I think people would compete to hold the trophy of the game with the largest jack pot.

7. Keep a tally of a players total winnings. Give a badge for being the biggest $$$ champ.
8. There could also be smaller jack pots for getting second or third place.


Some problems that need to be worked out.
I want there to be an option to play and compete for free. Free members can do everything except win a jack pot. But if the only people paying/adding money to the jack pots are the people that know they can win more than they paid and make a profit then the jack pots wont grow. If people only pay when they know for sure they will come out ahead then the system breaks down. An incentive for people to pay even when they can't win would make it work better but I don't know what that would be.

If a jack pot grows for a year and becomes 100s of dollars, some new guy could come in, pay his $5 monthly fee, beat that one huge jack pot, take all the money and never return. That isn't a good design but that will eventually happen with the current idea. Could have some kind of system where all jack pots start at $0 on your sign up date. So a player that has been here from the beginning can take the entire pot while a player that has been here for just a month can only take what was added in the past month.

Slime Slayer
01-06-2015, 04:44 PM
I like it.

Kong
01-06-2015, 05:08 PM
Would you pay? How much would you pay? Would you pay every month? Would you pay only if you were pretty sure you could profit? Would you stop paying if you weren't profiting?

CrispyChicken
01-06-2015, 06:22 PM
Awesome idea. If I had money (which I definitely don't :() I would be more inclined to donate.

Slime Slayer
01-06-2015, 08:37 PM
Would you pay? How much would you pay? Would you pay every month? Would you pay only if you were pretty sure you could profit? Would you stop paying if you weren't profiting?

If my schedule was more open, I would pay. No more then 5 or 10 bucks a month. I would not pay if I was basically garaunteed to loose. I think the idea is great but I think it needs to be publicized, I worry that just our regular players would not be worth it.

Winnebagel
01-08-2015, 09:25 AM
Cool idea. Maybe there could be extra jack pottage if someone beats a World Record as well. That'd be an extra little kick that might bring in more players from TG as well and perhaps help RU get more recognition in this area for MAME records.

Tails
02-10-2015, 09:37 AM
Personally I wouldn't pay. I still like the original concept of retro uprising which was compete for high scores; awesome forum, and none of the world record fighting. I just feel like doing a jackpot will cause what always happens in competition here, fighting or the prize pulled at the last minute.

Dudebro
02-10-2015, 02:54 PM
The goal is to reward/pay players for being champs and to bring money into RU so the site can afford to grow.I obviously don't follow video game record sites but I don't recall hearing about any of them rewarding people with cash. Sounds like a good idea if it works.

Btw this wouldn't violate any state laws about gambling with real money?

All membership fees are evenly deposited into a jack pot for each game.How do you make any profit? If someone comes in and beats a few big pay out games are you gonna be able to have the funds available? I ask because the money isn't gonna just be sitting in an account waiting if it's helping RU grow.


I want there to be an option to play and compete for free. Free members can do everything except win a jack pot. But if the only people paying/adding money to the jack pots are the people that know they can win more than they paid and make a profit then the jack pots wont grow. If people only pay when they know for sure they will come out ahead then the system breaks down. An incentive for people to pay even when they can't win would make it work better but I don't know what that would be.

If a jack pot grows for a year and becomes 100s of dollars, some new guy could come in, pay his $5 monthly fee, beat that one huge jack pot, take all the money and never return. That isn't a good design but that will eventually happen with the current idea. Could have some kind of system where all jack pots start at $0 on your sign up date. So a player that has been here from the beginning can take the entire pot while a player that has been here for just a month can only take what was added in the past month.
Maybe make it kind of like a subscription model. You need to donate 2-3 months consecutively to get the max jackpot. You could go longer but I think that might turn people off. I think people might like the option to just drop 10-15 and be covered for a few months.



Take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt because I'm not gonna be involved much I bet. Just figured I'd give you some feedback to get the ball rolling.

Kong
02-10-2015, 05:34 PM
Btw this wouldn't violate any state laws about gambling with real money?I don't know how that would work. I need to look into it. I am not sure but I think what happens is American law considers online gambling legal but forces Visa, Master Card and Pay Pal to ban it which means it is complicated to use those as payment methods which forces nearly everyone out.

I'm not sure if this would be treated the same as online poker and how visa bans you or if there are other laws that would apply.

How do you make any profit?Option 1. Take a rake. 10% goes to the house. Option 2. All deposits need to be available to be paid out but eventually some scores will never be beat and therefore never cashed out. If it is a popular system where the jackpots eventually grow large then the site has lots of money to invest in itself and can expect to never have to pay it back all at once. Same as a bank. A bank knows it has to eventually give you your savings back but that doesn't mean all they do is just shove it under a big mattress.

Tails
02-10-2015, 05:37 PM
Kong just had an idea instead of it increasing daily why don't you set up a credit system and they have to use say $1 to play it? 75% to pot and 25% to the site. Could also get credits for participating on the forums which it would come out of the 25%. Would increase forum activity.

Kong
02-10-2015, 06:37 PM
In America the law is state by state, not federal.

If a state says no then they mainly go after the bank, Visa, Master Card and Pay Pal. They might go after the host but then the server just has to be in a state that says ok which is easy. 99.99% chance they will never go after the player.

If it is a game of chance (slot machine, craps, black jack) then most states say no.

If it is a game of pure skill, like chess, then most states say yes.

If it is a mix, like backgammon or yahtzee, then most states say yes except - Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont - have a grey line that is confusing. All of them would ban a slot machine. All of them would ok Chess. Backgammon falls into a confusing grey area. Most sites simply ban anyone with a billing address from those states to save them the trouble of figuring it out. The server can not be in those states.

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

I think what happens when you get a complaint is the payment method, visa, paypal etc, ban the website.

Dudebro
02-10-2015, 09:05 PM
Option 1. Take a rake. 10% goes to the house.
As incentive to keep donating you could make their jackpot go up by percentages depending on how many consecutive months they pay, not matching 10% though or else it'd be pointless for you.

Same as a bank.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a bank doesn't start with zero funds right? I'd just hate for you to get into a position where you'd be stuck holding the bag and hurting your projects reputation.

Kong
02-10-2015, 11:21 PM
That wouldn't be the problem.

The problem would be finding a way to get people to buy in.

Their reasons to do so would be:

They carefully look at the scores, prizes, membership fees and compare to their skill and no without a doubt they will profit. It is ok if a few people do this, but the jack pots will not grow to anything impressive if this is the only people we attract.
Same reason as #1 but they make a mistake somewhere along the lines and lose money. Not the way I want it to work but there will inevitably be a few people that fall into this category.
People pay the monthly fee simply because they want jackpots in games to exists. They want champs to be paid for demonstrating their skill. This is key. If this can't happen then this whole topic is pointless.
Incentive. There is some sort of extra bonus you receive for paying and the chance to win prizes is just a side benefit. Basically we give users a little extra to encourage them to want to be in point 3. I'm not sure what this would be.


Once I have everything in place I will do a little demonstration and start a poll see how many people fall into group 3 and take suggestions for #4. If the response is not enthusiastic then it wont happen.

Dudebro
02-11-2015, 08:53 AM
1. A monthly thing where they win a percent of the total donated. For most scores set that month maybe?

2. Add some kind of "RU coins" that can be redeemed for stuff you found in a dumpster prizes.

3. Maybe some way they can shift funds from one jackpot to another. Obviously not much or people would stack and clean you out.

D.B. Cooper
02-12-2015, 11:35 AM
You start paying out prizes then you will need to deal with tax laws as well. My suggestion is that it's not worth the headache but if you decide to go for it, I hope it works out for you.