Current events!

[Dudebro]

What the hell are we supposed to do then?

Nothing, unless you live in a country with blasphemy laws. I'm pretty sure Canada has similar laws on this so just don't criticize people for being a certain religion and you'll be fine. Criticizing the religion itself should be fair game.

in the same way people have been conditioned to say 'conspiracy' with 'theory' being attached to it every time since 9/11

Anything but the official explanation is a conspiracy by definition.

a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators

[Slime Slayer]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

official explanation

Can you give me an official explanation?

[Mareeps]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

@Brawl- theres something like 10million refugees, about half the population, and you don't trust all of them? I suspect terrorists might be using this crisis to their advantage but if it's true they certainly aren't even close to the majority. How would they organize 10million people without the rest of the world finding out about it? It defies reason.

Why should I welcome "refugees" with open arms in the first place? Why don't they fight to make their home a place to live, instead of fight other countries to force them to change to accommodate them?

[Dudebro]

Originally Posted by steven

Can you give me an official explanation?

Really? It's been about 15 years and you don't know the official explanation? Here's a good place to start. If you need more check the sources at the bottom of the page-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Or are you just disagreeing with the dictionary definition I quoted?

Originally Posted by Mareeps

Why should I welcome "refugees" with open arms in the first place?

Compassion? Decency? If you became a refugee would you want other people to at least welcome you into their country as opposed to living in a refugee camp?

Why don't they fight to make their home a place to live

The average person isn't gonna amount to more than cannon fodder in a warzone. Despite what some people may say these refugees are made up of families, should their fathers abandon them to go die fighting an enemy that has superior fire power and government support? It makes sense to me that they would stay with their families and flee the fighting.

instead of fight other countries to force them to change to accommodate them?

Is this even a fact or just more fear mongering from xenophobes? Even if it is true it doesn't justify leaving families to die when we can do something to prevent it.

[Slime Slayer]

I just wanted to know the qualities of an official explanation.

[Dudebro]

You wanna know what qualifies as an official explanation? Any explanation that is produced by the experts who are tasked with an official investigation.

For example when someone is killed the police officially investigate it. They then provide an official explanation which includes testimony from experts(coroners, forensics, profilers, ect). Any other explanation is just a theory(but not a scientific one). Any explanation that suggests a secret plot is a conspiracy theory.

That makes sense right?

[Slime Slayer]

So official explanations are not necessarily correct then.

[Mareeps]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

Compassion? Decency?

That's just appeal to emotion, and not a good enough reason for me to get my country ruined by these people.

[Kong]

Originally Posted by stevencassidy13

So official explanations are not necessarily correct then.

Correct. There are several conspiracies that have been proven true.

• NSA spying on innocent citizens. Was a conspiracy theory. Now is just a conspiracy.
• Watergate. Was never a theory.
• Sadam had WMDs and was responsible for 9/11. Not sure if that started out as a theory or not.
• The CIA setup a drug network to sell crack to the Crips and Bloods and use the profits to overthrow foreign governments setting off the crack epidemic and drug war. Never a theory.
• Corporations have been caught in huge conspiracies trying to keep lead, asbestos, Teflon and other poisons in products for profit. Started as a theory.
• The 1919 World Series was thrown. Started as a theory.
• The FBI poisoned alcohol during prohibition causing 1000s of deaths. Never a theory.
• Israel and USA created the first military grade computer virus legitimizing cyberwarfare. Still technically a theory but there is a lot of evidence suggesting it's most likely real.
• The CIA has been caught illegally assassinating a lot of people. Never a theory, just a conspiracy.
• The number of insane assassination attempts on Castro are hilarious. (some of these are still theories, many are proven) The CIA hired the mob to kill castro, the FBI didn't know and arrested the mob at the border before they had a chance to meet Castro. CIA hired Castro's girlfriend to poison him with cold cream. He found out and gave her a gun and told her to shoot him. She changed her mind and left the CIA for him. The CIA poisoned cigars and rigged other cigars to explode. They laced his scuba diving suit with poison. Booby trapped a conch shell on the sea floor. They tried to make his hair fall out so he wouldn't have that so sexy people leading beard. They laced his radio study with LSD so he would stop giving great speeches.
• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods - The Pentagon came very close to massively attacking itself and framing Cuba so we could go to war. Everyone that needed to, except JFK, gave their approval. This was a conspiracy but never a theory. It was very similar to the 9/11 conspiracy theory.
• We didn't like Castro.

Conspiracies are very common. The official story is very often wrong. Conspiracy Theories are very rarely right.

Originally Posted by Mareeps

Why should I welcome "refugees" with open arms in the first place?

Empathy? Golden Rule?

Why don't they fight to make their home a place to live

They are fighting, and losing. How do civilians successfully fight a military? Why didn't the Native Americans fight when Europeans stole their land, oh right, they did fight and they lost.

fight other countries to force them to change to accommodate them?

Is this happening?

[Dudebro]

Originally Posted by Mareeps

That's just appeal to emotion, and not a good enough reason for me to get my country ruined by these people.

If you wanna be heartless and mean that's your choice I'm just telling you why other people wanna help.

[RU Joe]

Well I guess I must look pretty heartless too, but really I'm not.
I'm just steamed up about this whole mess, and stealing from the poor to help the poorer in today's world of excessive wealth is just bullshit.



I feel for the people who are suffering, where ever they are.


Equality and peace.

But, I need to tell you guys about a copy - and - paste e mail I read a while back which tells the story of a Greek immigrant who arrived in Canada decades ago with other immigrants from neighboring European countries.

He reminds the reader that when he and his fellow immigrants arrived all those decades ago, it was they who adapted to Canadian life, not Canada adopting all kinds of new rules and laws especially for them.
So why is it different for Islam and Muslims?

In short, he points out this situation we see unfolding now in which Muslims are demanding special rights, sometimes threatening legal action or even violence if those demands are not met.
I believe that is what Islamization is all about, that 'some are more equal than others' thing I keep bringing up over and over, except this one has a big 'or else' tacked on the end of it.

Is it just me, or does this whole situation sound like an abusive relationship, where the abuser threatens even more violence if their demands aren't met, and the victims refuse to even try to fix the situation because they're afraid of making the violence even worse?

[Dudebro]

So what's the point of that story? We shouldn't help these particular refugees because some of them might be very annoying?

I'm confused about why everyone keeps heaping all the blame on Muslims who try to change the laws and customs of their adopted homelands. What about the weak governments who let them get away with it? If your government bends over a barrel to appease a minority of immigrants then I think you should be mad at them. It's not hard to say no.

It's like how US conservatives gnash their teeth about sharia law becoming legal, wouldn't the real problem be the government breaking its own laws and ignoring the will of the people?

[RU Joe]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

So what's the point of that story? We shouldn't help these particular refugees because some of them might be very annoying?

I'm confused about why everyone keeps heaping all the blame on Muslims who try to change the laws and customs of their adopted homelands. What about the weak governments who let them get away with it? If your government bends over a barrel to appease a minority of immigrants then I think you should be mad at them. It's not hard to say no.

It's like how US conservatives gnash their teeth about sharia law becoming legal, wouldn't the real problem be the government breaking its own laws and ignoring the will of the people?

The point is that these refugees are not annoying, they are arrogant and demanding.
What if your neighbor's house burned down and they came over to your house to stay - but upon arrival began demanding you change the way you live, eat, speak, and think?
{then the government came around and said your house is now theirs, and that you must move out}
NO other immigrants, no matter how different their homeland customs were, made demands of other people the way Muslims do.

Muslims don't try to change laws and customs of their 'adopted' homelands - they make threats until changes are made.
Governments ARE bending over barrels to meet their demands, only it isn't the governments who are the ones getting the shaft by this.
Yes, it is hard to say no when the alternative is being labeled as 'racist', which brings us around again to where we started.
#Islamisnotarace

[Dudebro]

What if your neighbor's house burned down and they came over to your house to stay - but upon arrival began demanding you change the way you live, eat, speak, and think?
{then the government came around and said your house is now theirs, and that you must move out}

For the first part I'd tell them to leave and if they refused I'd call the cops. The second part isn't reality as far as I know, at least in the US, so I dunno. I suppose I'd take it to court and if that failed maybe some vengeful arson?

Governments ARE bending over barrels to meet their demands, only it isn't the governments who are the ones getting the shaft by this.

So again the real problem is the governments folding under the pressure. Btw what are some examples of this? I don't recall any muslim threats being entertained in the US. That would be political suicide.

The point is that these refugees are not annoying, they are arrogant and demanding.

NO other immigrants, no matter how different their homeland customs were, made demands of other people the way Muslims do.

Muslims don't try to change laws and customs of their 'adopted' homelands - they make threats until changes are made.

So what's your point? What course of action should be taken instead of the current one? I'm sincerely curious about what your end game is. I know lots of US conservatives want them to be denied sanctuary and/or killed but surely you aren't that hateful.

[RU Joe]

First of all I'd like to re - state that my 'end game' is equality and peace.
I am against anything which threatens either of those two things.

In the UK Muslims have been granted Halal lunches in the public schools, now in place for all the children whether Muslims or not.
On certain occasions where non - Halal lunches got fed to Muslim children, their parents complained to the schools which in turn apologized as though they had poisoned those Muslim children somehow.
Not that it makes much of a difference how you kill an animal for its meat, but the point is that Muslims got their way through demands, which in turn were based on their own religious beliefs.

Here in Canada there is an ongoing debate on whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear their face - covers while taking their oath to become Canadian Citizens.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cana...210617846.html
Again, special treatment being demanded based on their own religion.

Another point of interest is how Muslims now want to sing our national anthem 'O Canada' in Arabic.
Again, I refer you to the story of the past immigrant from Greece and his fellow Europeans - did any of them demand to be allowed to sing in Greek, Italian, German, etc?
No, they adapted and learned to speak {and sing} in English.

And before you cry racist let me finish by saying these kinds of demands being made by Muslims go far beyond preservation of their own religion and/or culture - this is more like imposing those beliefs on everyone else.

[Dudebro]

In the UK Muslims have been granted Halal lunches in the public schools, now in place for all the children whether Muslims or not.

Source? I did a quick google search and all I saw was talk about it at some schools that have a large population of Muslim kids attending.

I agree it should not be the only option either way though. Lots of schools have options for vegetarians but they don't force that on the rest of the kids.

Here in Canada there is an ongoing debate on whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear their face - covers while taking their oath to become Canadian Citizens.

Definitely should not be allowed. It doesn't matter if it's a strongly held religious or cultural belief when it comes to security. I remember this came up in the US a few years ago but last I heard it didn't go anywhere.

Again, special treatment being demanded based on their own religion.

Actually I think it's a cultural thing, not all Muslims feel obligated to abide by it.

Another point of interest is how Muslims now want to sing our national anthem 'O Canada' in Arabic.

So let them, what's the problem? If you mean at official events then sure that's not cool unless it's specifically a Muslim event.

And before you cry racist

I really though we put this angle to bed. Why would it be racist? I'm fully aware of all the other races who are Muslim.

this is more like imposing those beliefs on everyone else.

Well yeah that's how their religion operates. It's very similar to the Christian right in the US. They act like our country is a Christian nation and they try to impose their myths on everyone. We have lots of people demanding Christian objects on public property, prayer in school and government, exceptions for scriptural bigotry, ect and they aren't just protesting they're also writing to politicians, voting for like minded candidates who will push their agendas and donating millions to fight for the theocracy they claim they don't really want. All you can do is fight against it(legally of course) and educate people about why it's wrong.





https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...deral-prisons/

Apparently it's happening in US prisons too! Now we must get mad, our convicts can't even enjoy bacon!

[RU Joe]

Love and peace.

[Slime Slayer]

Batten down the hatches Mexico.
Hurricane Patricia bears down on Mexico as strongest storm ever

[ZedIsDead]

190 mph winds sustained!? The threshold for a Category 5 hurricane is only 156 mph sustained. Holy shit, this storm is something else. Stay safe, Mexico.

[RU Joe]

Originally Posted by ZedIsDead

190 mph winds sustained!? The threshold for a Category 5 hurricane is only 156 mph sustained. Holy shit, this storm is something else. Stay safe, Mexico.

^
Thankfully it lost power as it climbed ashore.

[Mareeps]

Terrorist attack in Paris going on right now, at least 40 dead, many hostages. Who else saw this coming with the welcoming of "refugees"?

[Kugyince]

Even terrorists need refuge.

[RU Joe]

Originally Posted by Mareeps

Terrorist attack in Paris going on right now, at least 40 dead, many hostages. Who else saw this coming with the welcoming of "refugees"?

Multiple attacks in Paris, some bombings and some shootings were reported.
I'm at a loss for words.

Ten:

Even terrorists need refuge.

So they slipped through the cracks, is that what you meant?

[ZedIsDead]

Last I heard, the death toll's ~60. Shit, this is terrible.

[Mareeps]

wouldn't call it slipping through the cracks if they're shipping in people from countries that hate the west by the trainful