2016 Presidential Candidates

[david man45]

@Kong RE: Feudalism, I would prefer this because it is fair and morally just in comparison to socialism and democracy.
RE: rational self interest, you can not act outside of it, when you feed a homeless person you are doing it for yourself, not for them. Just try to wrap your head around that.
RE: the king, didn't muh school tell me in france they killed some king? Point is, you know who's in charge and who to blame. And as far as the countries doing 'better' than us, or so it seems, like I said wait. The system is unsustainable and will collapse. Socialism makes people poor not capitalism. 'corporatism' is just as bad. And when the money becomes sound everything will work out into its proper place.

DB, Y U NO LIEK FREE MARKET. you think by putting guns to people's heads is the way to help people? You're sick. Tyrannical.

Also trollmasters, I qualify for all sorts or govt. assistance none of which I accept. I pay for the heating In my home, I pay for my food, etc. I paid for lunch in school and I didn't exactly have a choice between going to those crappy places when I was a kid but as soon as I realized what it was all about I dropped out. I would sooner beg on the street than accept that stolen money to feed myself, but im not a total piece of crap. But I love the common arguments for statism, "Muh roads, muh schools etc." Lets not even get into why there can be no such thing as a good cop.


When I was like 16 years old i decided to become an off the books entrepreneur. I survive on my own and pay no taxes yeah? even better.
Ayn Rand had some great ideas, that are irrefutable, such is the nature of logic, but still, broken clock twice a day thing.

---------- Post added at 04:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

"Socialism, such a great idea you need a gun and a cage to force everyone along."

---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

OR, "Socialism: now we can all be EQUALly poor, except our masters." My argument is that of reason and morality, is it that hard to understand that democracy and socialism are evil?

[Dudebro]

didn't muh school tell me in france they killed some king

I think this sums up your problem, you're not very informed. Feudalism is a terrible system and it hurts everyone except the tiny percent at the very top. Supporting it in 2015 is just stupid.

DB, Y U NO LIEK FREE MARKET.

Well uh, because it's a fairy tale that will never work? It's the same reason I don't like communism.

When I was like 16 years old I bought a bag of cheap weed and then sold it to the point where I can now live nearly risk free and probably make more than most people you know.

This is just ridiculous. Care to elaborate on how one bag of weed being sold by a 16 year old would make you independently wealthy?

I still think this is all a troll attempt. You've only made me more sure of it with each new post.

[ZedIsDead]

>Sell off the table goods
>
>PROFIT FOR LIFE

[david man45]

I decided not to include that in such words ZiD

[ZedIsDead]

I edited my post.

Also, it's really hard to take you seriously when you say democracy is evil. If you said it was misguided or something, I'd at least give you the benefit of the doubt.

[david man45]

As opposed to what just blindly saying I'm wrong with your eyes close and fingers in your ears? Lol democracy is slavery

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Dudebro

I think this sums up your problem, you're not very informed. Feudalism is a terrible system and it hurts everyone except the tiny percent at the very top. Supporting it in 2015 is just stupid.


Well uh, because it's a fairy tale that will never work? It's the same reason I don't like communism.


This is just ridiculous. Care to elaborate on how one bag of weed being sold by a 16 year old would make you independently wealthy?

I still think this is all a troll attempt. You've only made me more sure of it with each new post.

Don't tell me you aren't all for communism, you are. And you know through business savy, buy one sell it for more so on so forth. Maybe you misunderstood, I'm not rich from selling one bag of weed. I just work with what I can and not steal out of other people's pockets and call it good. But then again if you're in a room of 1 million people, chances are they're all terrible and incompetent..

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

I love your continued intellectual refutation of anything I've said though. I've nothing more to say to you unless you'd like to actually learn something and not be so weak of constitution. Is your trigger consoler with you?

---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

Woah wait, the same reason you don't liek the free market and communism is the same reason? And that reason being they're fairy tales?

[Kong]

Do you know how feudalism works?
Your lot in life is decided entirely by birth, not merit.

10% are born noble.
80% are born serf.
10% are somewhere between.

Serfs are owned by nobles, nearly identical to slavery.
All of the wealth generated by serfs is given to the noble that owns them. If not given then taken by force.

You would prefer to live in that system? Even if it meant you have an 80% chance of being a serf? If your answer is yes, I genuinely would love for you to explain in detail.

I can understand why you are anti-tax but I see no other explanation than troll if you would willingly choose serfdom.



My opinion is we are still living in a feudal society, it just is more masterfully disguised.

[david man45]

It is more fair, really I'd prefer monarchy, maybe Feudalism is the wrong system. I believe in the ideal that if one can own himself he can be owned so there's that. It's all about the free market.

---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

If they are forced into serfdom physically it's wrong, if they are forced financially then it's right

[Kong]

They are forced into serfdom because they were born poor.

Their social position is not determined by merit, it is decided by family. Either you are a family of slaves or a family of slave owners.

So, yes, they are forced by fiances, but they are not poor because of laziness or a mental or physical dysfunction. It is inherited.

So you think someone born poor should be owned by someone born rich? Would you still think that if you were poor?


One last question.
There is a set of identical twins separated at birth. Genetically there is no difference.
One is raised by a rich loving family.
The other, raised in a poor broken home.
Once they become adults the first has a terrific life, the second does not.

Does the first twin "deserve" his great life? Does the second deserve any help?

[david man45]

There is no such thing as equality and there never will be a such thong, nor should there be, as an equal start.

[Kong]

That didn't answer my question. Does being born rich mean you deserve a better life? And would you change your mind if you were born poor.

By rich/poor I do not just mean $$$.

[ZedIsDead]

David, I know you're still pretty young, but I hope you'll look back on this when you turn 25 or 26 and realize how ridiculous you sound right now.

[david man45]

I used to be die hard socialist to be honest, I think the more you grow the more you lean towards capitalism.
Kong, yes,you deserve your own lot in life and it is directly result oriented.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

You couldn't nit deserve it.

[ZedIsDead]

I should probably clarify my last statement. It wasn't meant as an attack on capitalism. I just don't understand why you'd advocate feudalism, monarchy, or dictatorship. Yes, a benevolent dictator would be able to get a lot of things done. Chances are, however, that any dictator you get probably won't be benevolent. Why are you so anti-democracy? It certainly isn't perfect, but it's the best system we have.

[david man45]

Because democracy puts the people the least fit to be in power, in power. It's just absurd. My ideal system is where I am somehow free *and* independent, which would be to be the ruler myself. But if I need a ruler I'd rather him be there for a reason. Not my borderline retarded neighbors. Democracy is just mob rules. Doesn't work in mental institutions yeah? This system in entirety is wrong and will be proven through economic collapse. When that time comes and you have literally nothing besides menial labor skills, you'll probably realise how nice it is to have a slave master. Oh those poor kids working in factories in china, but would be a million times worse off if they didn't have those jobs.. I know it sounds radical, but not everyone can be rich and not everyone should be. With sound money those who shouldn't have money won't and vice versa. Capitalism is the only fair system , and it will bring about lords and serfdom etc

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

But to get back to the real point of all of this, if you can even remember that argument, is that it is wrong to steal from the rich to give to the poor. Bottom line.

[ZedIsDead]

People who rise to the top are often sociopaths who don't care who they step on. Why should I let one of them call the shots? They aren't better-equipped, they're just fucking assholes.

I just wish there was a better way of educating American voters so that they know what they're voting for.

[david man45]

No, they get to the top through bezzle systems with fiat money

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

The USG won't be around long enough for educating them to matter.

[Kong]

Originally Posted by david man45

Oh those poor kids working in factories

Do you realize you are not in a sweat shop simply because you were lucky enough to be born here, and that the socialism of this society is why your life is better than theirs?

not everyone can be rich and not everyone should be.

Total world wealth = $241 trillion
total population = 7 billion
Every person could have $34K. For a family of 4 that would be $134K.
You might not consider that rich, but everyone could have a decent life.
Instead just 70 people own about 1% of the the worlds wealth.

it is wrong to steal from the rich to give to the poor. Bottom line.

Do you realize what you are advocating is stealing from the poor to give to the rich? Do you not think that is wrong?

[Dudebro]

Davidman wants a system that rewards merit but the two systems he keeps bringing up do not do that. They reward the lottery of birth with almost no chance of advancement. So yeah, either troll or just completely ignorant of history and reality.

[david man45]

Kong we both know that if everyone had the same amount of wealth everyone would instantly devalue it. Point being is that you can't just arbitrarily redistribute wealth, through violence I might add.
Ha yeah socialism is why this country doesn't have swear shops. Next joke. Socialism is going to be the reason why there is going to be sweat shops and masses of starving people. Luck has nothing to do with it Kong, my ancestors were obviously not poor enough to have that happen. Where do I say stealing from the poor for the rich?

[Kong]

Originally Posted by david man45

Kong we both know that if everyone had the same amount of wealth everyone would instantly devalue it.

I did not mean it as a literal option. The world has enough resources for everyone to have basic needs met. The reason they are not is because of the greed of just a few thousand people.

Ha yeah socialism is why this country doesn't have swear shops.

Originally Posted by Kugyince

...ever visited a hospital, went to school, used municipal water, used electricity, used a fuel to heat his home or fuel his car, walked on a sidewalk, visited a park, received mail, traveled a road, benefited from a local police force, or even consumed food that was grown on a farm?

Luck has nothing to do with it Kong, my ancestors were obviously not poor enough to have that happen.

What did you do to earn your ancestors? I call ancestors luck. I think this is our major difference.

Where do I say stealing from the poor for the rich?

You said you believed in a political system based on bribes, in a system where the rich own the poor, in a system where might makes right. The intent of capitalism is to generate wealth for the rich through the sweat of the poor with the illusion that one day the poor could become rich if they just work hard enough. It is stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

[david man45]

I would disagree, capitalism is private business.as far as the meme goes, lul worthy for sure.

Because they don't want to share makes them greedy? Alright whatever. You are not a total piece or garbage por putting a gun to their heads to make them share? It is the job of the person doing better to help someone in need? So much so that you would hold a gun to his head to do so? You think private business makes those people atarve? Delusional. There's a direct correlation between socialism and poverty. Go, kong, fish for the rest of your life in Africa to feed someone. I'll blow your brains out if you dont. And does the saying, teach a man to fish you feed him for life say anything to you? Nothing is for free and to use violent coercion to get you way us just sickening

[Dudebro]

Davidman you should just stop you're embarrassing yourself.

Btw I'm still waiting on how you became wealthy from selling one bag of weed. What you said so far was vague and unconvincing.

[Kong]

sell 1. buy 2. repeat.

Originally Posted by david man45

Because they don't want to share makes them greedy?

70 individuals owning 1% of everything is greedy, yes, very much so.


But from a selfish point of view, I don't want to live in a world where the majority is uneducated, lead can be pumped into the air for profit (like it was until 1980), there isn't a fire department to prevent my neighbors fire from spreading to my house, and homeless shit, piss and sleep in front of my house (my current situation).

If this was lord of the flies or walking dead, then survival of the fittest has merit but society works best when you pull everyone up. Like it or not, believe it or not, you have greatly benefited from society working together.

[Dudebro]

sell 1. buy 2. repeat.

I assume this was about the weed thing. I've been around dealers all my life and this never works out. Unless David is leaving out some huge plot point I'm calling bullshit on that story.