Twingalaxies down

[TodayIsForgotten]

Originally Posted by NESKING2

WHEN we start getting paid YEAH anyone can see it till than MY skill AND work is MORE Valuable than just giving it away for FREE any longer

Why, though? I don't understand why you are so defensive about this stuff. At the end of the day its video games. Sounds like youth in rebellion more than it does enjoyment and showcasing your talents.

[NESKING2]

Originally Posted by thetedster

If you don't mind me butting in for a second, the best example to excelled gameplay in world record attempts is the NES game Gimmick.

Go search it, and see if you can bat the game, with all of the items, without a continue.

A guy has the world record, and is ahead of everyone by a full minute. His record hasn't been challenged because the guy is literally the Bruce Lee of Gimmick, and watching him play the game is like watching an art form.

There are going to be scores that people will not be able to duplicate. either because of RNG (Random Number Generation) or simply by luck. Technique and skill have plenty to do with it, but some world records just simply are based on either complete mastery of the game, or just dumb luck.

(I have the world record technically as per TG on Street Fighter Alpha on SNES, complete RNG luck, if you watched it, you would agree with me)

From what I've seen from the younger WR community, they share their work, and love the competition between themselves. Most of them are not pompous or withstanding of their records, and even generate followers and fans through streaming. Hell, even when I hit really big scores and people ask me what my strategies are, I give them to the people. What do I care if someone beats a score I have? I know I did something great, and I got a very large score and pushed someones motivation to beat something I created.

In short, don't be offended when someone decides to try to beat your world record. Not only are they trying to compete with you, but winning a race with yourself not only looks stupid but is a complete waste of your time.

Anyways I have all my play on record and I have played live and done live stream SHOWING my skills many many times however I do not agree with it but do it anyway.......

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

[QUOTE=thetedster;253413]If you don't mind me butting in for a second, the best example to excelled gameplay in world record attempts is the NES game Gimmick.

Go search it, and see if you can bat the game, with all of the items, without a continue.

A guy has the world record, and is ahead of everyone by a full minute. His record hasn't been challenged because the guy is literally the Bruce Lee of Gimmick, and watching him play the game is like watching an art form.

There are going to be scores that people will not be able to duplicate. either because of RNG (Random Number Generation) or simply by luck. Technique and skill have plenty to do with it, but some world records just simply are based on either complete mastery of the game, or just dumb luck.

(I have the world record technically as per TG on Street Fighter Alpha on SNES, complete RNG luck, if you watched it, you would agree with me)

From what I've seen from the younger WR community, they share their work, and love the competition between themselves. Most of them are not pompous or withstanding of their records, and even generate followers and fans through streaming. Hell, even when I hit really big scores and people ask me what my strategies are, I give them to the people. What do I care if someone beats a score I have? I know I did something great, and I got a very large score and pushed someones motivation to beat something I created.

In short, don't be offended when someone decides to try to beat your world record. Not only are they trying to compete with you, but winning a race with yourself not only looks stupid but is a complete waste of your time.[/QUOT

GIMMICK is interesting


not my type of game but ill try it out

[bearhawk72]

People watching others play and using their strategies and adapting it on their own has been around as long as gaming. How is it any different now, than back in the arcades when people would watch over your shoulder?

If I set a WR, which I did technically in Continental Circus on here, I was willing and I did tell the others what was working for me, what wasn't and wanted someone to challenge it. Sure enough 2 people beat my score and reset the world record. And all 3 of us did it by sharing what we figured out about the game as we went along.

http://www.retrouprising.com/video-g...ontest/t14580/

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

It remind's me of the Futurama episode where there is an exhibit about Mom's favorite Robot. It's a mirror and Bender looks at it and exclaims
"It's me!!! No one ever look in this mirror again!"

[pacwhiz]

Forgot a very important point, referring back to my original post!
7. alienated the entire community of gamers, and the public, by completely disregarding their forums AND the scoreboard, archiving the forums for the past 8 months (without any word or inkling of its fate), and not releasing the scoreboard in any form or other until recently.

This imo killed off any positives that the transition of ownership could have otherwise had; gamers had already migrated elsewhere after 3 months of total nothingness let alone 8 or 9 months(!); and then New TG comes back online, with no forums (only a thread at proxy-site CAGdc), no scoreboard (initially), and then later some ridiculous fees to be paid if one is to remain a part of the TG community?? Seriously.

Anyway, moving along...

Originally Posted by thetedster

There are going to be scores that people will not be able to duplicate. either because of RNG (Random Number Generation) or simply by luck. Technique and skill have plenty to do with it, but some world records just simply are based on either complete mastery of the game, or just dumb luck.

Yes i agree. I can relate because Ms. Pac-Man is one of those cases due to the 'random fruit generator'.

Originally Posted by thetedster

From what I've seen from the younger WR community, they share their work, and love the competition between themselves. Most of them are not pompous or withstanding of their records, and even generate followers and fans through streaming. Hell, even when I hit really big scores and people ask me what my strategies are, I give them to the people. What do I care if someone beats a score I have? I know I did something great, and I got a very large score and pushed someones motivation to beat something I created.

You seem to be implying that sharing hard work on gameplay and the love of competing is age-related, which of course i don't agree with, even if you're not directly saying that we middle-aged folks don't share as much. Also, there are many more nes, snes, xbox (etc etc) gamers than there ever were classic gamers during the golden era, therefore it may seem that there are more younger folks who share, simply because there are more OF them. And, if you're a lazy bum like me, you can't be bothered to go through the hassle of setting up a stream again (actually i got a stream working once for mame, took ages to set up, but it remained jittery laggy and unstable, just wasn't worth it at all and couldn't play normally). A lot of the top classic guys stream online and share their secrets though, like John McAllister, Hank Chien, Rick Carter, George Leutz, Richie Knucklez, George Riley, to name but a very few.

I think the degree of sharing is down to your enthusiasm not just for the game you excel at, but also the enthusiasm for the gaming community/friends. A higher level of enthusiasm creates a higher desire to share, even if that includes 'the risk' of sharing your actual methods or strategies. I also think it's important to give credit where credit is due, if someone's gameplay has improved from watching someone else's. That way a new method or strategy can always be attributed to its inventor.

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

Originally Posted by bearhawk72

People watching others play and using their strategies and adapting it on their own has been around as long as gaming. How is it any different now, than back in the arcades when people would watch over your shoulder?

Precisely. Although we would have to concede that gaming has moved along since then, back in the 80's there was really not much choice in the matter, you could hardly shoo off the watchers could you. And for console or MAME gamers playing at home there usually isn't anyone watching over the shoulder. But it's true that Gaming started as basically a shared activity, and to me that remains one of its major 'essences'.

Originally Posted by bearhawk72

If I set a WR, which I did technically in Continental Circus on here, I was willing and I did tell the others what was working for me, what wasn't and wanted someone to challenge it. Sure enough 2 people beat my score and reset the world record. And all 3 of us did it by sharing what we figured out about the game as we went along.

And there you go I like that, plus with multiple brains it allows you to get much further in the game than with 1.

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Originally Posted by bearhawk72

It remind's me of the Futurama episode where there is an exhibit about Mom's favorite Robot. It's a mirror and Bender looks at it and exclaims "It's me!!! No one ever look in this mirror again!"

Hmmm i thought i'd seen them all! Which ep is that? Will have to go back and see that one!

[bearhawk72]

Originally Posted by pacwhiz

[quote}Hmmm i thought i'd seen them all! Which ep is that? Will have to go back and see that one!

"Mother's Day" Season 2, episode 9.

[TodayIsForgotten]

I can understand people not wanting to show their game play, but honestly, if enough people are competing other people are going to start figuring things out. It's silly and foolish to hold to be stubborn by refusing to give up your gaming skills in a game where 5 people play it.

In any clique, in any group you're going to have collaboration and within that collaboration you're going to have stars. Even if people see the pattern some can not replicate it as explained before.

I think its great to have collaboration and then see the few rise to the top with excellence. It's how the world works. Gaming is part of this world. No difference.

Look at the Japanese with their shoot em ups they get into groups and discuss tactics probably even record video from the arcades and review it.

[NESKING2]

Originally Posted by TodayIsForgotten

I can understand people not wanting to show their game play, but honestly, if enough people are competing other people are going to start figuring things out. It's silly and foolish to hold to be stubborn by refusing to give up your gaming skills in a game where 5 people play it.

In any clique, in any group you're going to have collaboration and within that collaboration you're going to have stars. Even if people see the pattern some can not replicate it as explained before.

I think its great to have collaboration and then see the few rise to the top with excellence. It's how the world works. Gaming is part of this world. No difference.

Look at the Japanese with their shoot em ups they get into groups and discuss tactics probably even record video from the arcades and review it.

Who are you ? To care what you would think, your not a Expert, or Champion nor are you anything in gaming except an emu player......

And you belittle and insult people who are around much longer and know so much more....

GAMING 101

[Fellowroot]

They way some of you guys talk about these scores is like getting together with your friends and having a good old time sharing ideas and strategies.

Let me tell you, competitive gaming is not always like this.

I had all of my inps open to download then Clay beat me on I'm Sorry and LOCKED his inp over mine. Then Paul Hornitzky beat my Hal21 score and LOCKED his inp over mine as well. And to that I said *curse* them and then beat both of them back and locked my inp over theirs!

It is not always a friendly competition.

[NESKING2]

Originally Posted by Fellowroot

They way some of you guys talk about these scores is like getting together with your friends and having a good old time sharing ideas and strategies.

Let me tell you, competitive gaming is not always like this.

I had all of my inps open to download then Clay beat me on I'm Sorry and LOCKED his inp over mine. Then Paul Hornitzky beat my Hal21 score and LOCKED his inp over mine as well. And to that I said *curse* them and then beat both of them back and locked my inp over theirs!

It is not always a friendly competition.

Well it does suck being PRO level the fun does stop in my opinion but when you are victorious it's nice.....

It is nice to to kick back and just have social time too with the games, that has been my plan just like any sport or player or CHAMPION all the work and competition comes to an end......

I said it once and Ill say it again I could stop playing now and walk away more than happy and fulfilled with my work and know my mark and time will never be taken away, regardless of what anyone thinks......

[Dudebro]

competitive gaming is not always like this.

Believe me, we know.

[Kugyince]

Originally Posted by Fellowroot

I had all of my inps open to download then Clay beat me on I'm Sorry and LOCKED his inp over mine. Then Paul Hornitzky beat my Hal21 score and LOCKED his inp over mine as well. And to that I said *curse* them and then beat both of them back and locked my inp over theirs!

I can see your point on this and I most likely would have done the same thing. I've always been against public videos of gameplay on RU. I also think when a score is approved that the video should be deleted so as to not entice the mods to watch it for their benefit as well.

[NESKING2]

Originally Posted by tenser

i can see your point on this and i most likely would have done the same thing. I've always been against public videos of gameplay on ru. I also think when a score is approved that the video should be deleted so as to not entice the mods to watch it for their benefit as well.

yup

[pacwhiz]

Originally Posted by Fellowroot

They way some of you guys talk about these scores is like getting together with your friends and having a good old time sharing ideas and strategies.

Let me tell you, competitive gaming is not always like this.

I had all of my inps open to download then Clay beat me on I'm Sorry and LOCKED his inp over mine. Then Paul Hornitzky beat my Hal21 score and LOCKED his inp over mine as well. And to that I said *curse* them and then beat both of them back and locked my inp over theirs!

It is not always a friendly competition.

Fair point. I guess the more competitive you are, the less friendly it will become! For most of us gaming is indeed a friendly pasttime. In your case the frustration at their unsporting conduct weighs heavier than your desire to contribute to the gaming world; i get that. So i suppose other instances of hiding gameplay should similarly be scrutinized individually and perhaps not lumped together as a whole. Thx Eric.

I've always maintained that it is up to the players themselves to decide if his/her gameplay should be visible to others (though i was speaking mostly in terms of MAME for the TG scoreboard back then)... On sites like MARP you obviously can't hide anything. Ultimately it's up to each individual gamer, where and what to post - though i always think it's quite a shame and a bit of a damper when i see a hidden inp (or rather, don't see it!). I did have a few instances before where the players i was trying to beat had hidden their inp. Later i learned that some of them were hidden because at the time no tools existed at TG to include the inp, but most of the scores later than about 2007 were indeed hidden at the demand of the players themselves. So i thought about hiding mine as well... but just could.not.do.it. It just seemed.... somehow 'wrong'...! So i just posted it, and said, "go ahead, watch it and beat it".

My stance/mindset comes i guess from the shared activity that used to be gaming in the 80's, as stated before. Every time we discovered something new on a game, we bragged about it, showed it off, and waited for the next big break in one of our gameplays. Speaking of gaming as a shared activity: pinball! don't forget pinball! Used to play right flipper and give my friends the left one, that was always fun, especially when you reached grand champion as a duo! :P

---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Tenser

I can see your point on this and I most likely would have done the same thing. I've always been against public videos of gameplay on RU. I also think when a score is approved that the video should be deleted so as to not entice the mods to watch it for their benefit as well.

A surprising remark! Especially since you're a donor who can also watch the vids (so not just the mods). The fact that this possibility exists of viewing others' gameplays is one of the coolest things about RU! You haven't stated exactly your reasoning behind why you are against it (or perhaps you did do so in another thread, forgive me if i don't go hunting for that). So, is it just a natural tendency towards hatred of modulators, or...?

[Dudebro]

Especially since you're a donor

He was able to watch them long before that, he's a recently retired admin.

[Slime Slayer]

I have access as a donor, but I have not once watched a video, it's all about fun, and playing is fun. Getting a good score is a side effect of having a lot of fun.

[Kugyince]

Originally Posted by pacwhiz

A surprising remark! Especially since you're a donor who can also watch the vids (so not just the mods). The fact that this possibility exists of viewing others' gameplays is one of the coolest things about RU! You haven't stated exactly your reasoning behind why you are against it (or perhaps you did do so in another thread, forgive me if i don't go hunting for that). So, is it just a natural tendency towards hatred of modulators, or...? :)

As Dudebro has pointed out, I've worked for Kong in one form or another for about 8 years. My remarks most likely were in one of the moderators sections and stem from my feelings that:

A) At the time only mods could view the footage. I am of the mind that staff should be held to even a higher degree of scrutiny with scores. With that in mind, everything should be done to prevent even unfounded accusations against staff bias as that can easily lead to the death of a community.

I still feel this way even though donors are allowed to view footage as well. It almost feels pay-to-play. Whether that is or isn't the case is not the issue, it's the general perception that is the important issue.

B) Until about a year ago, RU was a focused community based around retro gaming hobbyists finding a special spot on the internet where they could not only meet and share with other like-minded individuals but also engage in friendly competition with them. That being said, I find the thought of going behind someone's back to watch their gameplay for the purpose of using it against them underhanded, sneaky, skeevy, and just downright dishonest. Passing out tips and tricks to one another is one thing, even during gameplay, it's what friends do. It builds camaraderie. Going behind someone's back just so you can one-up them, really, really not cool.

I would never do this without asking someone first and I would expect the same courtesy would be given to me. Now I'm not Fellowroot, I've freely given out advice to competitors during sanctioned contests even, but if someone were to just be a sneak about my gameplay footage then that person and I are going to have real issues.

tl;dr: Not the best things to build the site around in my opinion.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Tenser

Until about a year ago, RU was a focused community based around retro gaming hobbyists finding a special spot on the internet where they could not only meet and share with other like-minded individuals but also engage in friendly competition with them.

This.

[TodayIsForgotten]

Originally Posted by Tenser

As Dudebro has pointed out, I've worked for Kong in one form or another for about 8 years. My remarks most likely were in one of the moderators sections and stem from my feelings that:

A) At the time only mods could view the footage. I am of the mind that staff should be held to even a higher degree of scrutiny with scores. With that in mind, everything should be done to prevent even unfounded accusations against staff bias as that can easily lead to the death of a community.

I still feel this way even though donors are allowed to view footage as well. It almost feels pay-to-play. Whether that is or isn't the case is not the issue, it's the general perception that is the important issue.

B) Until about a year ago, RU was a focused community based around retro gaming hobbyists finding a special spot on the internet where they could not only meet and share with other like-minded individuals but also engage in friendly competition with them. That being said, I find the thought of going behind someone's back to watch their gameplay for the purpose of using it against them underhanded, sneaky, skeevy, and just downright dishonest. Passing out tips and tricks to one another is one thing, even during gameplay, it's what friends do. It builds camaraderie. Going behind someone's back just so you can one-up them, really, really not cool.

I would never do this without asking someone first and I would expect the same courtesy would be given to me. Now I'm not Fellowroot, I've freely given out advice to competitors during sanctioned contests even, but if someone were to just be a sneak about my gameplay footage then that person and I are going to have real issues.

tl;dr: Not the best things to build the site around in my opinion.

There's too many forums now where you can few videos. Youtube especially. But i do understand and agree with what you're saying.

[Kong]

To the people that are against public replay of their high scores.

What if there was some way to compete to be the first to discover/broadcast a new technique. So someone might use your technique to beat your score but you are still credited as the first to publicly release the trick that they used.

Would that make you more in favor of playing in public and releasing videos and INPs?

[NESKING2]

Originally Posted by Kong

To the people that are against public replay of their high scores.

What if there was some way to compete to be the first to discover/broadcast a new technique. So someone might use your technique to beat your score but you are still credited as the first to publicly release the trick that they used.

Would that make you more in favor of playing in public and releasing videos and INPs?

I discovered a FEW of them first ever and not concerned about my score being beaten, as you can see I posted quite a few things and Elevator Action once done will be posted too, the beauty is ill make sure it cannot be beaten at that point HHAHAHAHHAHAH

[Kugyince]

Originally Posted by Kong

To the people that are against public replay of their high scores.

What if there was some way to compete to be the first to discover/broadcast a new technique. So someone might use your technique to beat your score but you are still credited as the first to publicly release the trick that they used.

Would that make you more in favor of playing in public and releasing videos and INPs?

I don't know about the others but to me that's not really the issue. I don't care about accreditation as much as I care about developing a like-minded community around our hobby. Of course these are just my own feelings and I can't speak for the others.

[Dudebro]

I don't get it. Some of you want a friendly non competitive atmosphere around here but then you want score gameplays hidden for seemingly competitive reasons.

[Slime Slayer]

Give the option for the users to make their videos public or not. If they choose to keep their videos private, then they forfeit their priviledge of watching other users videos.

[Barra]

Leave all gameplay open. People who want to hide their scores are only scared of people who are going to beat them. Ok yes you may have been the one to discover a strategy first, and you deserve all the accolades you get for doing so. But if someone can beat your using your own strategy, then surely they are the better player.

A collaboration of minds will ALWAYS discover whatever technique/strategy it is that you are hiding.

Aart nailed it earlier:

Originally Posted by pacwhiz

plus with multiple brains it allows you to get much further in the game than with 1.

Id hate if RU went down this path of being able to hide gameplay. Donors only is a good compromise. Its only $5

[NESKING2]

Originally Posted by Barra

Leave all gameplay open. People who want to hide their scores are only scared of people who are going to beat them. Ok yes you may have been the one to discover a strategy first, and you deserve all the accolades you get for doing so. But if someone can beat your using your own strategy, then surely they are the better player.

A collaboration of minds will ALWAYS discover whatever technique/strategy it is that you are hiding.

Aart nailed it earlier:


Id hate if RU went down this path of being able to hide gameplay. Donors only is a good compromise. Its only $5

Keep in mind too some things done and discovered may NEVER be discovered again and unless I getting paid or the spotlight first why should I share it, it's the same as secret recipes, no difference when I did several things and exposed it, I had many morons in the community CLAIM it was done before and I knew it was not but that is my point, I shared my 0 score because all it could be was tied, I do however regret sharing it at times, being the FIRST ever gamer known in history to do a 0 score on any complete game was something special and something that may NEVER be done on any COMPLETE game again......

And more than 5 people play all the games I played or play, it's an illusion because ONLY 5 five submissions and that shows others are NOT good enough and that is ok, been there before......

There are a few games I never revealed the secrets to and IF someone wants them LET them figure out what I did to BEAT me, not gonna have more corrupt refs and such steal my work and discoveries, NOW someday Ill reveal all my secrets but not now it's too early....

And retro gaming is growing it's NOT going away by any means

---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

I wanna cement this ONE last time IF you want secrets DISCOVER them yourself since it's so easy WHAT I did FIGURE IT out soooo easy right well have at it... Inventors have have patents and copyrights for a reason, chefs of family Restaurant DON'T share certain things and it's NOT different by any means....... you want our valuable stuff work for us PRO level people are not your personal cheat code box...... We earned it and now it's your turn and will give you props when you do...