Maybe they should just "Clockwork Orange" the guy, and force him to watch "Batman and Robin" over and over. That might do the trick without the state having to pay too much.
I understand what you guys are saying, and it makes me angry too, but .. if the general public were allowed to carry concealed pistols incidents like this would not only become far less likely but if they did occur people would be able to put the 'gunman' down immediately instead of having to run cowering.
Archie Bunker's Airport Security plan works, let's face it.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxA6QZjCJ60]Archie Bunker Vs The TSA - YouTube[/ame]
Let me put it to you another way:
There you are in location X {be it movie theater, mall food court, etc.} when all of a sudden someone starts shooting people.
How many shots do you think it would take before everyone around him drew their weapons and put him down? = 2, maybe 3 before they'd turn them into Swiss cheese.
Just saying.
On a different note, does anyone else find it strange that this guy managed to get in the theater with a pistol, assault rifle, and a shotgun?
Where were the people looking everyone over for 'outside' snacks and other things? - this guy must have had a large bag or a box or something to conceal the weapons - and I couldn't get in with a bag of peanuts if I wanted to .
Something is really fishy about that.
Either way I guess the TSA grope squads can be expected 'coming soon to a theater near you' - why not? they're already at sports games and high school proms ..
{ranting}
He was wearing full riot gear - bullet proof vest, helmet, neck guard, groin guard, leggings (not sure what that means), and a gas mask. He had an assault riffle, the element of surprise, it was dark, he timed it so gun fire was already going off in the movie when he began shooting and he gassed the audience.
Even if every single person in the audience was packing, they probably couldn't have stopped him. Plus untrained civilians shooting guns in a crowded dark panicked theater would cause even more injuries and deaths.
Your argument would have worked 150 years ago in the old west. It fails today.
He came in through the fire exit. I am guessing he broke in.
Where were the people looking everyone over for 'outside' snacks and other things?
From video it looks like the theater was a small one compared to some of the gigantic monstrosities in the US. Where I live we have a pretty large theater(18 screens maybe?) and even then they just take your ticket before you enter the big hallway full of theaters on one side or the other. Once you get past the 80 year old lady taking tickets you're on your own. I've been sneaking stuff into theaters for years, no one cares unless you're obvious.
One thing is different though. In my theater an employee routinely comes into the theater with a red glowstick to check the fire exits. Without fail I've seen this happen every time I go. Also I'm sure our fire exits have alarms on them, there's no propping them out for a half hour.
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Originally Posted by Kong
leggings (not sure what that means)
I'm no expert obviously but from what I understand it's like the leg gear bomb squad would wear. It restricts mobility but it protects the legs from being targets. There was a dramatic bank robbery years ago where the guys wore protective gear and had assault rifles, police had to go to gun stores to match the firepower. It went on for a while and was only stopped when the cops realized they didn't have leg protection. Once they got that notice it was a done deal. I don't remember the details but I think the cops killed all but one of them and the other killed himself after his legs were hit badly.
Quote:
He came in through the fire exit. I am guessing he broke in.
From what I heard he bought a ticket and went into the theater and propped the fire exit. He waited like a half hour and then came in tossing the canisters and firing with a shotgun. It was most likely a very confusing and deadly scene. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people killed were near the exit and the shotgun did most of the damage.
Quote:
Does anyone know how he was stopped?
Last I heard his assault rifle jammed because of the 100 round clip not being a standard part, prone to problems. They assume he went outside to get more ammo or more guns(maybe even the explosive he had in there). Cops rolled up when he was at or going to his car. From the sound of it he removed some or all of his armor by then and he just gave up peacefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Jester
hells ya
Would you elaborate on that a little? What are you hell yeahing about?
You'd be surprised how long death row inmates stay in jail. Combine that with all the legal costs and such and it makes sense. It's a well known thing, we're not just making it up. This is why I advocate the bullet in the brain method.
FINANCIAL FACTS ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY
• A new study in California revealed that the cost of the death penalty in the state has been over $4 billion since 1978.
Study considered pre-trial and trial costs, costs of automatic appeals and state habeas corpus petitions, costs of federal
habeas corpus appeals, and costs of incarceration on death row. (Alarcon & Mitchell, 2011).
• In Maryland, an average death penalty case resulting in a death sentence costs approximately $3 million. The eventual
costs to Maryland taxpayers for cases pursued 1978-1999 will be $186 million. Five executions have resulted. (Urban
Institute, 200.
• In Kansas, the costs of capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-capital cases, including the costs of
incarceration. (Kansas Performance Audit Report, December 2003).
• Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers
with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost
of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per
execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial
level. (Duke University, May 1993).
• In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a
single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).
This is why I advocate the bullet in the brain method.
So to cut costs you'd dispense with the entire appeals processes etc? Despite the fact that dozens of innocent people have been released from death row over the last couple of decades? Do things summary justice Judge Dredd style?
@RevJ- I already said my method only applies to those who are obviously guilty, like this guy. If there's doubt then no, go to trial and figure it out.
Perhaps it was a bit shocking to hear that coming from me, with all of my talk about Peace and Equality.
Yes, Kong, you're right there probably would be some ricochets and stray bullets causing more injuries but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth the gamble.
In such circumstances I would tend to think those were going to be my final moments, and given the choice I think I would at least like to be able to return fire rather than just be gunned down helplessly.
Maybe that's what I should have said instead.
@RevJ- I already said my method only applies to those who are obviously guilty, like this guy. If there's doubt then no, go to trial and figure it out.
Who gets to decide which cases are "obviously guilty" and which ones aren't?
I don't mean to be rude but your logic behind this seems immature or at the very least not well thought out.
The added expenses are from legal fees and court costs. Several innocent people end up on death row. The death penalty is a finial decision with no take backs. If you screw up and kill an innocent person (which we have) then you are no better than the murders that you are trying to punish.
This guy seems obviously guilty and I am going to guess he is not going to try fighting in court too hard. Not sure how that changes the cost of the death penalty. I assume it should make it much cheaper but I don't know.
News channels will make a fortune on this case. It would be nice if they donated some of their pure profit to legal fees and the victims.
@DB. Your one bullet plan would save probably $10K. Not bad but we are talking about millions of dollars. In order to save real money you have to either
A) skip "innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of doubt" - I know this guy is a special case and it isn't going to take much to find him guilty but treating some people different is a slippery slope.
or
B) reform legal fees - seems ridiculous that even the most thorough trial could cost over a million. I think some money must be slipping through bureaucratic cracks.
There's also the housing, food and healthcare costs. It is a true fact, at least in the US.
It bothers me to think about this. In one year I pay more for these "Human Rights" than the average American makes. Now I'm proud to say I earn this and can afford it, but the lowly inmate who is plaguing society get's it for free. Is this what my tax dollars are going for? I paid 20,000 in taxes last year and no one once asked me what they should put it towards. Why should I pay for this scumbags healthcare so he can be healthily executed in 20 years. I'll take care of him now for free.
If it makes you feel better, of that $20K you spent on taxes last year less than $1 went towards death row inmates.
You spent more on taxes than the average American makes, but very little of that went to human rights. About $11K of your 20K went to the military.
That $20K was just income tax. Don't forget sales tax, gas tax, import tax, inflation tax etc. Inflation is a tax just like any other and is close to 5% per year. Sales tax is around 8%. Gas tax is about 50 cents per gallon. After adding all taxes together you easily gave the government over 25K and 54% of that went straight to the world's largest military ever.
You spent $13K on war last year. You spent $1 on making sure our court system avoids killing innocent people. If you have a problem with your taxes, blame the military not human rights.
When you put it like that I wonder why I work at all. Why can't my taxes go to cool things, like fixing the crappy roads I drive on or the now defunct space program. I realize not a lot of my money is going towards death row inmates it's a very small percentage of the population. It's the American Prison system in general I have a problem with.
Well in cases like this one where there's no doubt the suspect did it. What are we going to court for?
Again my question is; who is the one who gets to decide which people are beyond any possibility guilty and who aren't? I haven't been following the case so you may well be more informed than I but you are actually ready to stand up and say this person must die from only what you've heard/read from the media?
I'm certainly not willing to make that call nor would I feel comfortable with anyone else being made into judge, jury, and executioner.
It's 100% certain he did it. There's the possibility that he didn't act alone but besides surrendering at the scene he's not cooperating with the investigation so it's not like keeping him alive will help in that regard.
Either way it's not like I'm running for office and BulletToTheBrain is something I'm seriously pushing. I'm just tired of obviously guilty people milking the system and languishing on at our expense. In some cases we should just cut to the chase. They don't wanna be a member of society anymore, let's help them fully meet that goal.
Your new nightmare XXVII:
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